Business partners draft contracts. Investment partners sign agreements. But when it comes to marriage – one of the most important partnerships of all – too many couples skip the financial conversations that matter most.
In this episode of The Agent of Wealth Podcast, host Marc Bautis is joined by Dr. Travis Parry, #1 bestselling author of Achieving Balance and Marry and Grow Rich. With a master’s in psychology and a PhD in Family Relations, Dr. Parry has spent his career studying the intersection of money, marriage, and mindset. He’s the founder of the Make Time Institute, an international speaker, host of The Balanced Growth Show, and a dedicated husband of 22 years and father of eight.
Together, they explore how couples can align their values, grow their wealth as a team, and avoid the burnout that can sabotage both relationships and financial success.
In this episode, you will learn:
- Why a strong marriage can be your most valuable asset, and how aligned values between spouses directly impact long-term wealth.
- How subconscious money beliefs passed down through generations can shape your financial behavior – and what to do about it.
- The key to balancing entrepreneurship, family life, and financial success without burning out.
- Why open communication and shared financial planning are essential to a thriving marriage and business.
- And more!
Resources:
marryandgrowrichbook.com | maketimeinstitute.com | The Balanced Growth Show | Achieving Balance | Bautis Financial: 8 Hillside Ave, Suite LL1 Montclair, New Jersey 07042 (862) 205-5000 | Schedule an Introductory Call
Disclosure: The transcript below has been edited for clarity and content. It is not a direct transcription of the full episode, which can be listened to above.
Welcome back to The Agent of Wealth Podcast, this is your host Marc Bautis. Today, we’re diving into a topic that blends wealth building with something we often don’t associate directly with financial success – marriage.
Can being in a healthy marriage actually make you richer? Our guest today says yes – and he has the research and real-world experience to back it up.
Joining me is Dr. Travis Parry, the #1 bestselling author of Achieving Balance and Marry and Grow Rich. Travis has a master’s in psychology and a PhD in Family Relations, which he’s used to deeply understand the intersection of money, marriage, and mindset. He’s the founder of the Make Time Institute, where he helps business owners and couples reach their financial goals without falling into the workaholic trap.
He’s also an international speaker and the host of The Balanced Growth Show podcast, a dedicated husband of 22 years, and father of eight.
In this episode, we’ll discuss how your marriage could be your biggest financial asset, how to avoid burnout while growing a business, and why getting aligned with your partner may be the secret to millions.
Dr. Travis Parry, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Marc. I appreciate it.
Alright, so let’s start off with the book. The book is titled Marry and Grow Rich. What inspired you to write it, and what’s the core message?
Back in 2010, I was finishing my master’s degree. I was focused on understanding balance, stress, and achievement, mainly from a psychological or individual perspective. But during one of my final assignments, I came across a study that reevaluated Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
An Introduction to Marriage as Your Biggest Financial Asset
We all know Maslow’s theory — self-actualization is at the top. However, in 2010, a group of evolutionary and adolescent psychologists — not marriage or family therapists — reexamined the theory and found something surprising.
They concluded there was no real evidence that self-actualization actually occurs. Instead, they said the number one motivator in life is parenting — passing on our genes, raising our families. Think about it: we work to provide for our families, we travel for our kids’ soccer tournaments, and so on.
The second motivator, they said, is mate retention — so staying married. The third motivator is mate acquisition — getting married. So, in this revised hierarchy, it’s not about the self at the top — it’s about parenting and marriage.
And yet, so many textbooks and theories are still based on Maslow’s original framework. Sometimes in science, a theory sticks around so long that we treat it like law. But Maslow’s theory has never actually been proven.
So, with that being said, it was this realization that completely shifted my perspective. It truly blew my mind. I knew I wanted to dive deeper, so I went back to get an additional degree in marriage and family studies.
At the same time, I was working as a financial coach with couples and started noticing a pattern — while I could help them individually, many weren’t on the same page financially as a couple. That disconnect was holding them back.
Most researchers focus on problems like high divorce rates, the strain on public resources, splitting up estates, and so on. But I wanted to take a strengths-based approach. I asked: Are there couples out there doing this well? If so, what are they doing right? Why aren’t we studying them more?
There are books that argue marriage makes people wealthier in general, and while that’s true —combined incomes and assets do help —that’s not the point of Marry and Grow Rich. I wanted to know: how do couples stay together and achieve financial goals?
What we found was that couples who are aligned in their financial goals are not only happier and healthier in their marriage, but they also experience more financial stability.
It all comes down to shared values. If couples share financial values, they’re on the same page. The same goes for parenting values, religious values, and more.
When we compared couples who shared values to those who didn’t, there was a significant difference. That’s what led me to write this book — to highlight what actually works, especially for married couples who are also business owners and want to grow both their wealth and their business.
Values, Communication, and Money Beliefs
I think the topic is interesting because, as you mentioned, most of what we hear is negative — how to prevent divorce or how to get spouses on the same financial page to avoid conflict.
You also brought up communication and values, and these are key themes. I want to dive into those, because anyone who works with couples can see that differences in values — especially around parenting and money — are common. How do you help couples get on the same page when their values are different?
Great question. We all bring various values and beliefs from our upbringing. Our relationship with money usually comes from our parents, and even from previous generations.
I remember working with one couple on this exact issue. The man saw money as a tool — something useful. The woman, on the other hand, hated money.
Situationally, they were in a financial pinch and waiting for money to come in. He was a business owner, so they would get large, inconsistent checks, and she would spend it fast. There was this fear mentality — like the money wouldn’t come again, so she had to use it right away.
As we dug deeper, we realized that her subconscious belief about money came from her grandfather, not even her mom. He lived through the Great Depression and passed on this scarcity mindset, along with some unhealthy views about religion and money.
She had internalized the idea that money was evil. Many people, especially in religious communities, misunderstand teachings about wealth. They interpret biblical stories to mean that having money is inherently wrong, or that wealth and spirituality can’t coexist.
Logically, most people know that’s not true. But those subconscious beliefs stick. And if you’re subconsciously afraid of wealth or believe money is bad, you might unknowingly push it away or sabotage your finances. It might sound a little out there, but the psychology behind it is real.
When we identified this for her, it made total sense. She recognized that the moment money hit her bank account, she spent it fast — not just from fear, but because of this deep, unspoken belief.
Most people just label couples as “the spender” and “the saver” without looking at why they behave that way. That’s why I always start with exploring a couple’s money history — where their beliefs and values come from.
Then, I walk them through an exercise where they write out what they consciously believe about money. We then discuss some basic financial principles, followed by mapping out a Venn diagram to find the overlap in their beliefs. That overlap is their shared values.
I tell couples not to worry about the differences — differences can be healthy. But if you focus on the overlap, and on the shared values, then you can create shared goals. I can’t tell you how many times, as a financial advisor, I tried to help couples plan for retirement or saving for a rainy day — and it felt like I was just talking past them because they weren’t aligned.
From Parts to a Whole: Aligning Couples’ Goals
I found that it was so much easier to work with just the husband or just the wife in the room. We could make decisions faster because, often, these couples had no idea where their shared values actually overlapped.
It was a guessing game, and sometimes it became argumentative or contentious. At the time, I didn’t have the therapy background or the resources to adequately help them, which could get frustrating.
But I realized that by going back to each person’s history with money, and exploring how their beliefs overlap — whether that’s around abundance, quality of life, or security — we could help them identify values they both believed in.
The next step is to ask, “How can we bring these shared values to life in the future?” That’s how shared goals are born — by aligning around the values they both hold dear.
I have a few questions surrounding a few things you mentioned earlier. What are some of the markers of a successful marriage when it comes to money and finances? Have you seen any trends or data on whether it’s better to delegate the finances to one spouse, especially in cases where one person owns the business and the other manages the household? Or does the research show that it should really be a joint effort, even if that can mean a lot of different things?
Another great question. The general consensus in the research is that when one person manages the day-to-day personal finances, it tends to make things less complicated. But in order for a couple to truly be on the same page, the other spouse — the one not directly handling the money — still needs to be informed.
What I recommend is having a conversation at least once a month — ideally once a week — to go over what I call a “spending plan.” I don’t like to use the word budget — it sounds like a diet and feels temporary. A spending plan feels more proactive and long-term. It’s about where we’re going.
What I often see, especially with business owners — and yes, this does tend to be more common with male business owners — is that the wife manages the household finances, even if she works outside the home.
That phenomenon aligns with research that says over 80% of household spending plans are managed by women. Whether or not she’s working full-time doesn’t really change that.
Sometimes, though, the business owner husband tries to handle all the finances himself. He’s got the spreadsheets and controls every penny, often out of fear that his spouse might mismanage something.
But that can create unintended consequences.
If she doesn’t know what’s going on — even if she wants to help and be supportive — she might spend more than what’s available simply because she’s not informed. That leads to conflict, and not because of the person, but because of the lack of communication.
So I say, regardless of who’s doing what, sit down once a week and go over your spending plan together. It doesn’t matter who’s running the numbers. What matters is that you’re both involved and communicating openly.
How Debt, Delayed Milestones, and Cohabitation Are Shaping Marriage Trends
What about the timing of these conversations? I imagine that, like most things financial, the earlier the better. But should this kind of discussion happen before marriage? And is there ever a point where you realize things just aren’t going to work — financially or otherwise?
You just opened a can of worms. I’ll say this: money is probably the least talked about topic before marriage. We’ll talk about everything else — things that used to be taboo — but not money. And that’s usually because of fear. A lot of people are afraid to talk about it, so they avoid it altogether.
I think couples need to hit the topic head-on. Not just “What are your career goals?” but “How do you manage money?” Now, I’m not one to say you should judge someone harshly for having debt. I don’t believe in that.
But I do know from research that bringing certain types of debt — especially consumer debt — into a marriage can be stressful and potentially damaging if it’s not handled well.
That doesn’t mean the marriage can’t work. It just means the couple needs to be proactive and understanding.
My wife and I met in college. We had student loans and car payments, and we managed them together. Now, of course, if someone’s coming in with multiple bankruptcies, seven maxed-out credit cards — that’s a different story. That’s not common, but when it happens, it’s definitely a red flag.
Still, I don’t think a 20-something should be expected to know everything about money. I taught family finance at the university level for years, and students are still figuring things out. Financial missteps at that stage shouldn’t automatically disqualify someone from being marriage material unless it’s a pattern of reckless behavior.
On the flip side, sometimes those money conversations actually delay relationships. People get so fearful about money that they put off marriage, home-buying, or even starting a family because they don’t feel “ready.” That fear holds people back psychologically.
Yes, I agree. I think that’s what we’re seeing more and more. Student loans are a big reason why some people delay marriage, buying a home, or starting a family. They’re graduating with this financial burden and feel like they’re not ready to take on anything else financially.
Exactly. And it’s not just about the debt itself — it’s about the fear that comes with it. That fear stops people from stepping forward into major life commitments, and that’s a challenge both individually and in relationships.
I would say students should have down-to-Earth conversations when taking out loans, ideally with a financial counselor at the university. Today, most just go to FAFSA and ask, “How much money can I get? What are the grants and scholarships?”
They then get the money and spend it. And we haven’t even talked about the cases where parents pay for everything. I know you have these conversations with your clients as a financial advisor — about whether or not to pay for their kids’ education.
On the flip side, there’s this growing sense of entitlement. If parents cover everything, how does that affect the child’s motivation to earn?
Even if they graduate without student debt, they may still rack up consumer debt. That’s the American way — we’re a consumer nation. We consume 40% of the world’s consumables. That’s staggering, especially considering we’re not 40% of the world’s population.
All of this affects marriage. In one of the wealthiest countries in the world, marriage is being delayed because of fear — not having enough, not being ready. So what happens?
We graduate college, wait to pay off loans, wait to buy a home, wait to feel secure in our job. Before we know it, we’re in our late 30s. Then we get married — maybe. But if we understand human biology and development, we know the odds of finding a partner and having children become more challenging the longer we wait.
And remember, parenting is the top motivator in life according to the revised version of Maslow’s hierarchy. Even if someone isn’t married or says they’re afraid of parenting, the desire to be a parent is still deeply ingrained. It’s a scientific fact. So delaying marriage because of money fears ends up pushing off parenting too, which increases the risk of complications.
Personally, I think we’ve gotten it all wrong. If you look at our grandparents’ generation, they think we’re nuts. We’re waiting until our mid-to-late 30s, even 40s, to get married. The average age of marriage in the U.S. continues to climb.
Much of that is because of the fear of divorce. Many people today saw their parents get divorced in the ’70s and ’80s and want to avoid the same fate. So they cohabit instead, thinking it’s a good test run.
However, research shows that cohabitation hasn’t had the expected effect. In fact, it makes people less likely to get married at all. The only exception is couples who have already made a commitment — who are engaged and planning their wedding.
When they live together during that engagement period, the outcomes are better. But for everyone else, cohabitation doesn’t prepare them for marriage the way they think it does.
I can see that. When people cohabit, they’re likely not intertwining their finances or having deep conversations about money. They may share expenses, but they’re probably not talking about values.
Exactly. That’s what’s missing.
Teaching Money Values: Start Early, Be Honest
Earlier, you mentioned that parenting sits at the top of the motivational hierarchy, and so much of our financial behavior comes from what we learn from our parents. Now, our parents probably didn’t sit down and say, “Here’s what I’m teaching you about money.”
Should parents be more structured about teaching money values? I know schools are starting to do more around financial literacy now, but for a long time, it was nonexistent. How should parents approach this?
Here’s the thing — even if parents aren’t intentionally teaching their kids about money, they are teaching them through their actions. Kids are always observing.
We say a picture is worth a thousand words, and the same goes here. If you’re spending frivolously and then telling your kids to save, that’s a mixed message. They’ll see what you’re doing and learn from that, not what you say.
Exactly. They pick up on the spending and notice what is really going on.
Precisely. So to answer your question — yes, parents should be teaching their kids about money. And actually, that’s the focus of my third book: teaching values.
When I say “values,” people often assume I mean religious values. And yes, I am religious, and many Americans still are. But even outside of religion, everyone has values. You can teach your child to be trustworthy or responsible without tying it to faith.
So ask yourself: what values do I want to instill in my kids? What values will help them become healthy, happy, successful adults — who can manage their money and relationships well?
Here’s the issue with public education: it’s too late. Yes, some states are now mandating financial literacy classes in high school, and that’s great. But most kids form their core values before they’re eight. By the time they’re 13 or 14, they can think more logically about money — but it’s already late in the game.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t teach it in schools, but let’s also recognize the irony here. The government, which is trillions of dollars in debt, is now telling kids, “Don’t go into debt.” And parents who spend recklessly are telling their kids to save. It’s all backwards.
As someone who taught personal finance at the university level, I saw how hard it was to get college students to truly internalize these lessons. They’re just trying to get an A and move on. At that point, they’ve already formed their financial habits. So if we really want to help the next generation, it starts at home and it starts early.
Parents don’t need to be perfect to teach their kids about money. Be open. Be honest. You can say, “We’ve made mistakes,” or “We’re still learning.” You don’t have to share every financial stress, but acknowledging imperfections makes it real — and gives your kids a better foundation.
There’s also, yet again, this concern about entitlement. Many parents have done well financially and want to provide a great life for their kids — but sometimes that backfires.
In The Millionaire Next Door, Stanley and Danko explain this pattern. The first generation comes to this country and works extremely hard. The second generation benefits from that work, becomes well-educated and financially successful. But the third generation? They often grow up without seeing the struggle — and they become entitled.
Breaking the Generational Wealth Cycle
It makes sense. But I think wealth can sometimes mask underlying problems — incompatibilities or value misalignments. That third generation, for instance, never sees the struggle. When they need money, it’s just there — for college, for spending, for anything.
So maybe the cycle just resets. They have to scrap to build wealth again, and then that generation sees what it takes, and they learn the values. Unless, of course, the cycle is interrupted through teaching, sharing, and communicating those values intentionally.
Exactly. When we become successful — at anything, really — we’re given what I’d call success indicators. Wealth can be one of them. And yes, I believe that’s a blessing. It’s the law of the harvest: what you sow is what you reap.
You put in the hard work, and you see the results. But over time, as we become more prosperous, it’s easy to start thinking, “I did this. This was all me.” And when we do that, we can forget the hard times — even if we once lived through them.
That’s when people change. There is a common phrase I don’t necessarily agree with: money doesn’t just make a good person better and a bad person worse.
What happens is that, without gratitude and a grounding sense of stewardship, people start to believe the money makes them — that it defines them.
But it could all be gone in a heartbeat. We didn’t do it all on our own. And one of the most important things we can teach our children, especially if we have wealth, is gratitude.
My son has grown up with security — he has a roof over his head and a car to drive. He hasn’t wanted for much. But we wanted him to see the world outside that comfort. So recently, we sent him on a humanitarian trip to Uganda.
He’s spending time with children who don’t know where their next meal is coming from. Their parents are worried about surviving the week. He’s not there to take pictures or broadcast it on social media — we don’t even allow social media in our home. He’s there to serve. And we hope it teaches him to be grateful.
Now, I’m not saying everyone has to send their kid overseas, but that’s one example of how we’re trying to teach gratitude and perspective.
If we just give our kids everything, we might be robbing them of the opportunity to learn what life is actually like. If they think they can go out into the world and succeed just because of who their parents are, they’re in for a harsh reality. The world doesn’t work that way.
Most parents don’t intend to raise entitled children. They want what’s best for them. But that often leads to shielding kids from hard experiences — when those are exactly the things that help them grow. We joke about it in our house. When my kids cook something that smells good, I’ll take a bite and say, “Taxes.” They roll their eyes, but it’s my little way of preparing them. They need to understand how the world works.
We’ve taught them from a young age to save, to give to charity and church. We tithe in our family. Even if they only have a dollar, we show them how to give 10 cents.
That principle of giving 10% isn’t strictly about religion. It’s about developing a mindset that says, “I always give forward.” Not giving back, but giving forward. That value can shape how they handle money for the rest of their lives.
The Mindset That Shapes Money, Marriage, and Business
Ultimately, it all comes back to our mindset around money. If we think we’re entitled to it, or if we believe it’s so scarce that we need to hold onto every penny — or worse, if we see it as something evil we need to get rid of — we’re setting ourselves up for problems. Those negative mindsets don’t just affect our marriages. They can derail our businesses, too.
As business owners, if we’re trying to grow, scale, and serve more clients — and we’re still stuck in a mindset of fear or scarcity — we’ll struggle. That mindset becomes the ceiling.
When we talk about being on the same page financially as a couple, it’s not just about good communication. It’s about shared values, shared teaching, and modeling the right behaviors for the next generation. That’s what allows families — and businesses — to thrive.
Alright, Dr. Perry, that’s all the questions I have for you today. Thank you for joining me on this episode of The Agent of Wealth. You provided some great insight and advice. Before we go, what’s the best way for our listeners to connect with you or get a copy of your book?
Thank you for having me. I’ve had these conversations with financial advisors for years, and I really appreciate you giving me the space to share. If you want to learn more about my new book Marry and Grow Rich, visit marryandgrowrichbook.com. To learn more about the Make Time Institute, my podcast, and other books and resources, go to maketimeinstitute.com. Thanks again for letting me go on and on about all the things I think I know!
Great, we will include all of that information in the resources section of the show notes. Thanks again, Travis. And thank you to everyone who tuned into today’s episode. Until next time… Don’t forget to follow The Agent of Wealth on the platform you listen from and leave us a review of the show. We are currently accepting new clients, if you’d like to schedule a 1-on-1 consultation with our advisors, please do so below.
Bautis Financial LLC is a registered investment advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.