How do you lead with responsibility, build high-performing teams, and inspire action? In this episode of The Agent of Wealth Podcast, the Bautis Financial team discusses the most recent book assignment in their monthly Book Club, Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy Seals Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.
Whether you’re managing a business, a family, or your personal goals, these leadership principles can transform how you approach challenges.
In this episode, we discuss:
- What “Extreme Ownership” is, and how to employ it in business and in life.
- The role of leadership in building successful teams.
- How to inspire action and accountability through effective communication within teams.
- The importance of collaboration.
- And more!
Drawing connections between military strategies and financial planning, the team offers actionable insights for leaders, professionals, and anyone striving for success. Listen in for strategies that will inspire you to take ownership, lead effectively, and create impactful results in every area of your life.
Resources:
Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy Seals Lead and Win | Bautis Financial: 8 Hillside Ave, Suite LL1 Montclair, New Jersey 07042 (862) 205-5000 | Schedule an Introductory Call
Disclosure: The transcript below has been edited for clarity and content. It is not a direct transcription of the full episode, which can be listened to above.
Marc:
Welcome back to The Agent of Wealth Podcast, this is your host Marc Bautis. Today, I’m joined by the Bautis Financial team for a special Book Club discussion. We’ve covered 14 books so far, but for those of you who may be new to these episodes, let me quickly explain how it works…
One of our team members selects a book for everyone in the office to read – this month, I selected the book – and then leads a discussion about the book here on the podcast. We’ll share valuable takeaways, our general thoughts, and discuss how we plan to implement insights from the book into our business and personal lives.
So, with me today is: John, Kayla, Kyra, and Dylan.
I chose the book Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy Seals Lead and Win by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. This is one of those books I purchased on my Kindle a while ago but never got around to reading. I’ve been wanting to read it for some time.
Jocko and Leif are Navy SEALs, and the book is about leadership. They share the leadership principles they learned in the military and how those principles can be applied to other areas, such as business or personal life. Jocko has a pretty popular podcast, and I’ve seen clips of him, listened to him on other shows, and even checked out his podcast a few times. He’s a classic military, no-nonsense kind of guy, which I find intriguing. I’ve always been curious about military leadership, leadership in sports, and how those lessons can translate into everyday life.
The book itself is very straightforward. It outlines 12 leadership principles, dedicating a chapter to each one. Each chapter begins with a story from Jocko and Leif’s military experience, highlighting how they encountered and addressed a particular challenge. They then explain how the principle applies to life and business.
After their military careers, Jocko and Leif started consulting with corporations, helping them apply these principles. I thought the book was insightful and easy to read. If you’re interested in military history or leadership, you’ll likely find it engaging. If not, you may still appreciate the principles and their relevance to leadership.
For today’s discussion, each team member has chosen their favorite principle from the book. We’ll cover five of the 12 principles. Each of us will explain the principle, why it resonated with us, and why we selected it as our favorite. Let’s start with John, who picked Extreme Ownership, the principle that gives the book its title.
Extreme Ownership
John:
I was drawn to this chapter because it sets the stage for the rest of the book. It gets to the heart of Jocko’s message and where this whole concept likely originated. The core idea is that a true leader must fully embrace responsibility for all actions and outcomes, regardless of who directly caused them.
This idea of ego versus ownership is simple at a high level: a true leader takes accountability. We’ve all heard the phrase, “The buck stops with me.” If you’re in charge and someone under you makes a mistake, ultimately, it’s your fault because the responsibility lies with you.
I liked how the book used a storytelling format. Each chapter starts with a military example, almost like a scene from a movie, before shifting to how the principle applies to business or other areas.
In this chapter, Jocko shares a story about being a leader in Iraq and taking ownership of a serious situation – a “blue-on-blue” incident, where U.S. troops accidentally attacked each other. This is one of the worst things that can happen under a commander’s watch.
Jocko describes how the incident unfolded. His team was surrounding a building and taking fire, not realizing the people inside were fellow U.S. troops. Tragically, one soldier was killed, and several others were wounded.
After the incident, an investigation began, and Jocko realized his superiors were looking for someone to blame. As he reviewed what happened, he recognized that, as the commanding officer, he was ultimately responsible. In a meeting with his team, he asked, “Who’s to blame?” Several people stepped forward to take responsibility, but he stopped them, saying, “No, it’s my fault. I’m the commanding officer, and I take full responsibility.”
By swallowing his ego and accepting responsibility, Jocko was able to shift the focus to figuring out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again. Not only did he avoid being relieved of duty, but he also earned the respect of his team and his superiors.
The key takeaway from this chapter is that accepting responsibility requires humility and courage. It’s necessary for learning, growth, and improvement. Jocko’s example set a standard for his team, encouraging them to adopt the same mindset.
Later in the chapter, Jocko applies this concept to the corporate world. He recounts working with a VP of manufacturing at a company who wasn’t achieving his goals and was full of excuses. Jocko realized the VP’s lack of ownership was the root cause. By coaching him to take responsibility and lead effectively, Jocko helped him turn things around, leading to significant improvements.
I appreciated the real-life examples that showed how this principle can apply not only to business but to many areas of life.
Marc:
I think when something goes wrong, too many people – whether consciously or subconsciously – ask themselves, “Who can I blame?” They focus more on protecting themselves than solving the problem.
Jocko’s approach is different: take full responsibility. People understand that mistakes happen, and when you take responsibility, it builds trust. By conducting a postmortem, identifying what went wrong, and figuring out how to prevent it in the future, you demonstrate true leadership.
This chapter sets the tone for the entire book. After all, it’s the main principle and the title.
Next, we’ll hear from Kyra, who will discuss the second principle.
No Bad Teams, Only Bad Leaders
The next chapter builds upon the concept of “Extreme Ownership” by emphasizing the role of leadership in shaping the success or failure of a team.
In the chapter “No Bad Teams, Only Bad Leaders,” Leif begins by recounting an experience he had observing a portion of “Hell Week” in the Navy SEAL basic training course, which he was participating in as an instructor. In this portion of the training, there was an exercise that involved boat crews running a series of obstacles while holding large, rubber boats. The boat crews were split up into groups of six, with one named the boat crew leader. It was that boat crew leader who received instructions for each obstacle — ran back to back — and led their team to completion.
One of the crews, #2, consistently excelled, winning each obstacle by a landslide — which gave them a much-needed break from the next task. Another crew, #6, consistently underperformed — losing each round and as a result getting punished more than the other crews.
To demonstrate the impact of leadership, Leif and the instructor running the training decided to see what would happen when they swapped the leaders of the two crews.
The results were striking: The formerly struggling crew #6 quickly improved and began performing well under their new leader, originally from crew #2. The #2 crew maintained its success, albeit with slightly reduced efficiency.
This story was used to prove the central idea of the chapter… that there are no bad teams, only bad leaders.
There was another story in this chapter, in the “Application to Business” section. It spoke about an experience the authors had working with a CEO of a financial services company who was experiencing issues with their bottom line after a failed product rollout. The CEO accepted the concept of Extreme Ownership, and asked the authors to teach and implement it with the company’s leadership team.
The issue was with one of the company’s key department leaders, the Chief Technology Officer. It was in his department where the failure of the product rollout lye. While the CTO was able to recognize some of the failures and absorb or own them as his responsibility, he couldn’t take extreme ownership.
The story was interesting, but ended with what you may expect while reading the book: The CEO of the business ended up letting the CTO go, as he was the one piece of the puzzle that was missing in the implementation of Extreme Ownership within the business. The business ended up having growth and success with a new CTO in place.
To be a good leader, you should provide the following:
- Take Ownership and Accountability.
- Provide Clear Expectations and Direction.
- Have a Positive Attitude and Confidence.
- Instill a Sense of Purpose.
- Exhibit Effective Communication and Teamwork.
Really, it all comes down to this: “There are only two types of leaders: effective and ineffective. Effective leaders that lead successful, high-performance teams exhibit Extreme Ownership. Anything else is simply ineffective. Anything else is bad leadership.”
Marc:
Yeah, I think it really highlights how critical having a good leader is. The NFL regular season just finished last week, and the day after — known as Black Monday — is when a bunch of coaches get fired. Owners believe that having the right leader is key to turning their team around. That’s why coaches in professional sports get paid so much, even though they never step on the field. Their role is to lead their teams.
This chapter really hit home for me, especially the story about the boats and the races. Not many people know this, but I spent a year at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, and one of the things we did there was similar to the boat exercises Leif described.
When you hear “inflatable boat,” you might imagine something lightweight, but these things were incredibly heavy. I don’t remember exactly how much they weighed, but they weren’t easy to carry. To make things even more challenging, they’d intentionally pair short and tall people on the same team.
We had to run a set distance carrying the boat, and then tackle an obstacle course — all while holding the boat over our heads. For the taller team members, the boat rested directly on their heads. For the shorter ones, they had to extend their arms fully just to reach it. It forced us to work together as a team to figure out the best way to handle the challenge.
The obstacle course itself was in two parts. First, you ran it without the boat to get a feel for the course. Then, you had to do it again as a team, carrying the boat. The boat couldn’t touch any obstacles; if it did, the team was disqualified.
In some sections — like going over a rope or climbing over obstacles — we had to create a kind of human buffer. We’d position ourselves between the obstacle and the boat, lifting it above us to ensure it didn’t make contact. Of course, that meant we were essentially being crushed by the boat as we maneuvered through the course.
So, while we weren’t on a beach during Hell Week like Leif and Jocko, this chapter definitely brought back some memories for me.
Alright, for the third principle, I’m going to turn it over to Dylan.
Believe
Dylan:
This chapter explains the importance of everyone on a team being on the same page and believing the mission that is trying to be accomplished. If the leader of a team doesn’t believe in the mission, it is difficult to inspire others and convey confidence to the team. On the flip side of that, if the team is able to see how their efforts contribute to the goal or mission, they are more likely to engage fully.
The chapter gives an example of a situation in Ramadi where Seal members resisted implementing orders from higher command because they didn’t fully understand and believe the reasoning behind the orders. At the time, the U.S. Military was generally handling the security of Ramadi and Iraq. The orders were that Iraqi Soldiers would be included in every Seal team operation. Team members were not happy, as the battle field was dangerous and these Iraqi soldiers didn’t have the same equipment or training as the seals. Jocko was able to frame a discussion with his team through a different lens. He let them express their opinions and skepticism towards the new orders. Jocko then said, “If the Iraqi military can’t get to a point where they can handle security in their own country, who is going to do it?” He then questioned what the future in Ramadi would look like if they couldn’t get these Iraqi soldiers up to speed. At that moment everyone on the team fully understood the purpose of the orders and the bigger picture of the mission. It relieved the skepticism and resistance that was occurring amongst the team and allowed them to carry on with the orders with confidence. From this story I learned that it is important to seek clarity when you don’t understand or agree with an initiative.
The biggest takeaway I had from this chapter is that Belief isn’t about blind obedience; it’s about deeply understanding and aligning with the underlying goals so you can lead authentically. This statement relates to financial planning. As financial planners it is truly important to fully understand the clients goals, values and unique circumstances. This helps build trust with the client and develop an authentic relationship. Planners must educate clients about recommendations being made to help them understand and believe the process and lead them to stick with it. When planners help clients see how each step being made ties into the long term financial plan, it empowers the client to remain confident and disciplined in pursuing those objectives.
Marc:
Yeah, I think you make a good point. One of the challenges we often face with the people we work with is getting them to take action. We can speculate that they have other priorities or that something isn’t important to them, but if we can clearly communicate why we’re making a specific recommendation — and how it will help them achieve their goals — it might motivate them more to act.
Jocko emphasizes this in multiple chapters of the book: effective communication is essential, not just from the top down but also from the bottom up. When assignments, orders, or projects come through, communication needs to flow in both directions. That back-and-forth exchange is critical to ensuring a successful mission.
Cover and Move
I’ll take the fourth principle: cover and move.
This principle is illustrated through another story from Ramadi, where a SEAL team was pinned down by enemy insurgents. They needed to change their position, but doing so meant exposing themselves to gunfire. The SEAL team was working alongside an Army unit and a Marine Corps unit, which added another layer of complexity. These were three separate units, so coordinating and communicating effectively was essential for success.
They employed the strategy of cover and move. If you think of a Hollywood movie with a gunfight, it’s a familiar concept: one group takes cover while another group fires to suppress the enemy, allowing the first group to move to a new position. Once that group is secure, they provide cover so the second group can move. By alternating in this way, they’re able to work in tandem and achieve their objective.
As Jocko explains, this strategy only works if everyone is aligned toward the same goal: successfully completing the mission.
In financial planning, I often think about this principle when working with other professionals, like CPAs or attorneys. Instead of focusing on how to make myself look good in front of the client, the goal should be to collaborate with those professionals to help the client achieve their goals.
For example, if we’re making a recommendation with tax implications, the CPA might see something from a different perspective or offer an option we hadn’t considered. By working together, we can provide a better outcome for the client than if we were each working in isolation, trying to prove our individual value.
This principle also applies internally. In our small team of five, we sometimes work on the same project but focus on different areas. For instance, one person might be working on the investment or portfolio side, while someone else is focused on gifting or estate planning strategies.
It’s important for us to collaborate and understand how decisions in one area might impact other aspects of the client’s financial situation. By avoiding silos and working together, we can ensure a more comprehensive approach that better serves the client.
Alright, for the last principle we’ll cover today, I’m going to turn it over to Kayla.
Simple
Kayla:
Yeah, I chose chapter six. In this chapter, Willink and Babin explain why keeping things simple is essential for success. They emphasize that complicated plans often fail because they confuse people and lead to mistakes.
For his example, Jocko shares another story from Ramadi, Iraq. He describes a situation where the SEAL team created a highly detailed and complicated plan with many moving parts and multiple teams involved. The complexity caused problems — some team members didn’t understand their roles, which led to mistakes and delays during the operation.
The leaders recognized the issue and realized that the plan was too confusing. They simplified it by focusing on the most important goals and ensuring that everyone clearly understood their responsibilities. To confirm this, they had team members repeat the plan back in their own words to ensure comprehension. This preparation helped the team adapt more effectively when unexpected challenges arose because they knew what they were supposed to do.
In another example, Jocko talks about helping a company improve workplace safety. Their safety strategy was overly complex, and employees didn’t understand what they were supposed to do, which led to accidents. The team worked with the company to simplify the plan, cutting unnecessary steps and focusing on the essential actions. Once the plan became easier to understand, employees followed it, and workplace accidents decreased significantly.
The takeaway from this chapter is that simplicity is often better. Complex plans are harder for people to follow and are more likely to fail.
This principle relates a lot to what we do. For example, when we start working with clients, we could deliver an extensive, 100-page financial plan. But initially, people often prefer to work in phases. Phase one might involve setting up an emergency fund, phase two could focus on investments and retirement, and phase three might address education planning, and so on. Keeping things simple is the key takeaway.
Marc:
Yeah, the example you gave about how this applies to what we do was the first thing that came to mind for me as well. Finance can be complex, and sometimes I think the industry makes it complex on purpose. But if you keep it simple and break it down into manageable chunks, it goes a long way toward helping people achieve their goals when we work with them.
I thought this was a great chapter too. These were the five principles that stood out to us, but some of the other ones were excellent as well. For example, the chapter on prioritizing tasks highlights how critical it is to focus on what’s most important. There’s also a principle on decentralized command.
One of the key takeaways from that principle is that a high-performing team should be able to continue operating effectively even if you take the leader out. When a team is running smoothly and firing on all cylinders, it should function independently without constant oversight.
I’m sure there are more principles we could discuss, but these were the ones that really resonated with us. That’s what we have for today.
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